┏━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━┓
┃『ビートルズとボブ・ディラン』┃
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2010(平成)年05月18日(火) 光文社新書 著:中山康樹
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https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4334035655
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3. ビートルズとボブ・ディラン BOB DYLAN
アメリカの多くのミュージシャンがイギリス勢の勢いに押されていた当時の状況下でも例外はあった。スティーヴィー・ワンダーやシュープリームスなどを擁するリズム・アンド・ブルースの老舗「モータウン」だけは、こういったイギリス勢の進出に動じる事なく次々とヒットを量産して行った。
これは別にモータウンのほうが優れていたとか、そういう話ではなく、黒人歌手中心のモータウンと、白人中心のロック／フォークはマーケットとしても文化としても距離があったからである。つまり、リスナーの層が違ったのである。
さて、ボブ・ディランによって開拓された、当時のフォーク・ブームについてだ。
ビートルズをはじめとしたイギリス勢が渡米した頃のアメリカでは、主に学生を中心とした、反体制・反政府運動の炎が広がりつつあった。ある者は反戦平和を掲げ、ある者は人種差別撤廃を叫び、またある者は男女平等を謳い、ある者は表現の自由・言論の自由を求めて走り回る。６０年代は若者が積極的に政治に参加し、問題意識をぶつけた時代であった。
こうした運動熱心な学生たちに支持されていたのがボブ・ディラン等のフォークミュージシャン達だったのだが、当時は、彼らのように社会に対し問題意識を持った曲を唄うフォークシンガー達をひとくくりに「プロテスト・シンガー」と呼んでいた。（プロテストとは「異議を申し立てる」または「抗議する」という意味）
そしてフォーク支持者たちはラヴ・ソング中心の、無難で型にはまった音楽を嫌い、社会風刺的な詩世界のあるフォーク・ソングを好んでいたのである。
ボブ・ディランは６２年のファースト・アルバム「ボブ・ディラン」（アルバム名）では、ほとんどの曲が自作ではない、カバー曲であったが、続く６３年の「フリーホイーリン・ボブ・ディラン」でいよいよその独自の詩世界を打ち出してゆく。そして６３年のサード・アルバム「時代は変わる」、６４年の「アナザー・サイド・オブ・ボブ・ディラン」の成功によって、彼はフォーク・ファン達から厚い信頼と支持を勝ち取ることになる。
特にセカンド・アルバムに収録されている「風に吹かれて」や「戦争の親玉」では反戦や人種差別をモチーフにした歌詞が歌われ、運動家のフォーク支持者たちにスローガン的な曲として扱われる。
どれだけ道を歩いたら
一人前の男として認められるのか？
いくつの海を飛び越したら 白いハトは砂でやすらぐことが出来るのか？
何回弾丸の雨が降ったなら武器は永遠に禁止されるのか？
そのこたえは、友よ、
風に舞っている
こたえは風に舞っている
幾年月 山は存在し続けるのか
海に洗い流されてしまうまえに？
幾年月 ある種のひとびとは存在し続けるのか
自由を許されるまでに？
何度人は顔を背け
見ないふりをし続けられるのか
そのこたえは、友よ、
風に舞っている
こたえは風に舞っている
何度見上げたら
青い空が見えるのか
いくつの耳を付けたら為政者は
民衆の叫びが聞こえるのか
何人死んだら分かるのか
あまりにも多く死に過ぎたと
そのこたえは、友よ、
風に舞っている
こたえは風に舞っている
Blowin' in the wind （邦題「風に吹かれて」）
ボブ・ディラン グレイテストヒッツ第一集 片桐ゆずる訳引用
アメリカに進出したビートルズは、このような音楽が社会運動と結びついている状況に驚いた。イギリスでも学生運動はあったが、アメリカほど激しくはなかったし、パワフルでもなかった。ジョン・レノンにいたっては、ディランと面会したときに、「君達の音楽には主張がない」とまで言われてしまっている。
以降ビートルズは、音楽的な変化とともに詞の内容も変化して、政治や社会についてのメッセージを含んだ楽曲も発表するようになる。
その一方でボブ・ディランもまたビートルズの影響により、それまでアコースティック・ギターだったものをエレキ・ギターに持ち替え、１９６５年に発表したアルバム「ブリンギング・イット・オール・バック・ホーム」はロックサウンドを取り入れたものとなり賛否両論を巻き起こした。
そして、アルバム発表の同年に開かれたニューポート・フォ―ク・フェスティヴァルにおいてディランが大掛かりな機材を持ち込み、大音響でエレキ・ギターを鳴らすや、頑固なフォーク・ファン達からブーイングの嵐が巻き起こるという事件まで発生。ディランは仕方なくステージを降りたのだが、関係者に説得され一人だけで再びステージに戻り、アコースティック一本で「イッツ・オール・オーヴァー・ナウ」（すべておしまい）という曲を演奏した。これは今や伝説である。
しかしながらこのディランのアルバム「ブリンギン～」は全米６位、全英１位に輝きディランのそれまでのどのアルバムよりも売れたのであった。このアルバム以降ディランは歌詞の中に社会問題をテーマに取り上げているような曲は身をひそめていき、その活動スタイルも徐々に社会運動的なものからは距離を置くようになる。
といっても、６０年代の前半はビートルズを筆頭としたイギリス勢がアメリカにロックの逆輸入をしたのを皮切りに米英双方の若いミュ―ジシャン達がお互いに刺激し合い、音楽的な面で大きく変化していったのと同時に、ロックン・ロールが若者たちの間で社会運動のシンボルとして支持されるようになりはじめた時期であったことは間違いない。
http://history.sakura-maru.com/dylan.html
････････････････････････････････････････････････････････････
ボブ・ディランとジョン・レノン、レアな二人のドライブ・ドキュメンタリーが公開
2016/07/07 17:30 JORDAN RUNTAGH
写真◆ロンドン市街を走るリムジンの後部座席で支離滅裂なやり取りを交わすボブ・ディランとジョン・レノンのドキュメント映像が公開。
■ロック界のレジェンド2人のレアなツーショットを収録したドキュメンタリー『Eat The Document』とは。 1966年5月、当時の若者たちはジョン・レノンとボブ・ディランの2人を「新世代の代弁者」と呼んだ。誰も聴いたことがない音楽を世に送り出す存在として、両者は当時の音楽シーンの頂点に君臨していた。前年7月に発表された『ライク・ア・ローリング・ストーン』で、ポップ・ミュージックの定義を押し広げてみせたディランは、2枚組の大作『ブロンド・オン・ブロンド』を完成させたばかりだった。一方レノンは、世界に衝撃を与えたビートルズの『リボルバー』に収録されることになる、アシッドの影響下で生まれた哲学的な歌詞と革新的なプロダクションが共存する『トゥモロー・ネバー・ノウズ』のレコーディングに臨んでいた。本映像には、同時期にクリエイティビティの爆発を経験していた2人のレアなツーショットが収録されている。しかしカメラに収められたのは、両者のアートについての崇高な会話ではなく、ロンドン市街を走るリムジンの後部座席で支離滅裂なやり取りを交わす2人の姿だ。社会問題の解決に貢献するような内容にはほど遠いが、本映像がスーパースター2人のありのままの姿と、両者の間に存在した緊張感を捉えた貴重なものであることは間違いない。本映像はディランにとって初のイギリスツアーの様子を追った『ドント・ルック・バック』の監督を務めたD・A・ペネベイカーによって撮影され、後に公開される予定だったドキュメンタリー『Eat The Document』に収録されている。前作における白黒映像を用いた映画風のアプローチが気に食わなかったディランは、本ドキュメンタリーの監督を自身で務めている。ロック史最大の愚行と揶揄されたディランのエレクトリック路線が大きな話題を集めていたこともあり、本ツアーは前年にも増して波乱万丈の内容となった。しかし本ドキュメンタリーの中心となっているのは、ライブ映像やバックステージの様子ではなく、どこかシュールレアリスム的なディランとその仲間たちの何気ないやりとりだ。ロンドン郊外にあったバンドメンバーの溜まり場で夜を明かしたディランとジョン・レノンの2人が、ハイド・パーク内を走る車内で戯れる本映像が撮影されたのは、1966年5月27日早朝のことだ。ペネベイカーが手にしたカメラを前に、ディランはボブ・ニューウィスの音作りにおける手腕について語っている。
次ページ > 「もともと2人は奇妙な関係だった」
https://rollingstonejapan.com/articles/detail/26190
「もともと2人は奇妙な関係だった」1999年のGadfly Magazine誌のインタビューで、ペネベイカーはそう語っている。「あのシーンで、2人は私に面白い映像を録らせようとしているようだったが、同時にお互いを牽制し合っているような節もあった」世界最高峰のリリシスト2人によるそのやり取りは、オスカー・ワイルドのウィットというよりは、好意的に捉えてもジェイムズ・ジョイスのワイルドな自由連想法といったところだが、実際にはドラッグ中毒者2人によるナンセンスなやり取りというのが妥当に違いない。ディランの言葉は特に理解不能だ。「あれは会話と呼べるようなものじゃなかった」ペネベイカーはそう語る。「あの時のディランは完全にドラッグの影響下にあった。何を話しているのか自分でも理解していなかったはずだ」
その支離滅裂な会話内容は、まるで理解を求めようとしないダダイストによるスピーチのようだ。話題は第2次世界大戦でイギリス軍がヒトラーのナチス・ドイツを破った勝因（回答：テムズ川の存在）、故郷への想い、野球などから、ママス&パパスやジョニー・キャッシュ、そしてイギリスのフォーク・ロック・グループのシルキーといった同時代のミュージシャンたちにまで及び、ビートルズの他のメンバーについて言及されるシーンもある。まともに意味が理解できる部分があるとすれば、ディランが吐き気を訴える場面だろう。「気持ち悪くて吐きそうだ」そう呻きながらディランはこう話す。「カメラに向かって吐くってのはどうだ？俺がカメラの前で披露したことのない唯一の行為だ。やっちまうか」隣に座ったレノンはふざけながらディランにこうけしかる。「悩みのタネは目の痛みか、そのグルーヴィーなデコか、それともクルクルの髪か？そんな時はZimdawn！たかが映画だ、遠慮するな。やっちまえ」参っている様子のディランは答えようとしない。ペネベイカーによると、その後レノンは音楽仲間の男性をメイフェアのホテルまで連れて行き、胃の中のものをすべて吐かせなくてはならなかったという。1970年に行われたローリングストーン誌のヤン・ウェナーとのインタビューで、レノンは当時のをこう振り返っている。「俺たちは皆ヘロインで完全にキマってた。気分は最悪だったよ。カメラを向けられている間、俺は頭に浮かんだことを片っ端から口にしてた。キマッてる時の典型的な行動パターンだ。でも主役は俺じゃない。あれは彼の作品で、俺は彼のテリトリーに入ってしまってた。とにかくひどく居心地が悪かった」
次ページ > レノンはディランを「世界屈指の才能」：動画はこちら
https://rollingstonejapan.com/articles/detail/26190/2/1/1
https://rollingstonejapan.com/articles/detail/26190/3/1/1
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┃ THE BEATLES INTERVIEW ┃ ＤＭ's Beatles site
┗━━━━━━━━━━━━━┛by Ｄmitry Ｍurashev
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①｜Manchester Dressing Room｜No.03
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‡1963(昭和38)年08月28日(wed) August 28
The Beatles pondered their past, present and future during this insightful dressing room interview filmed by BBC-TV. The interview footage was first broadcast in Britain during October 1963 as part of a BBC documentary entitled, "The Mersey Sound."
John: "The best thing was (Love Me Do) came to the charts in two days. and everybody thought it was a fiddle because our manager's stores send in these... what is it... record things."
George: "Returns."
John: "Returns. and everybody down south thought 'Oh, aha! He's buying them himself or he's just fiddlin' the charts,' you know, but he wasn't."
George: "Actually we'd been at it a long time before that. We'd been to Hamburg. I think that's where we found our style... we developed our style because of this fella. He used to say, 'You've got to make a show for the people.' and he used to come up every night, shouting 'Mach schau! Mach schau!' So we used to mach schau, and John used to dance around like a gorilla, and we'd all, you know, knock our heads together and things like that. Anyway, we got back to Liverpool and all the groups there were doing 'Shadows' type of stuff. and we came back with leather jackets and jeans and funny hair - maching schau - which went down quite well."
John: "We just wore leather jackets. Not for the group - one person wore one, I can't remember - and then we all liked them so it ended up we were all on stage with them. and we'd always worn jeans 'cuz we didn't have anything else at the time, you know. and then we went back to Liverpool and got quite a few bookings. They all thought we were German. You know, we were billed as 'From Hamburg' and they all said, 'You speak good English.' (smiles) So we went back to Germany and we had a bit more money the second time, so we wore leather pants - and we looked like four Gene Vincents, only a bit younger, I think. (smiles) and that was it, you know. We just kept the leather gear till Brian (Epstein) came along."
Paul: "It was a bit, sort of, old hat anyway - all wearing leather gear - and we decided we didn't want to look ridiculous going home. Because more often than not too many people would laugh. It was just stupid. We didn't want to appear as a gang of idiots. and Brian suggested that we just, sort of, wore ordinary suits. So we just got what we thought were quite good suits, and got rid of the leather gear. That was all."
(Next, the topic of discussion turned to the present fame of the group, and the sudden glare of media attention.)
George: "We do like the fans and enjoy reading the publicity about us, but sometimes you don't realize that it's about yourself. You see your pictures and read articles about George Harrison, Ringo Starr, Paul and John - but you don't actually think 'Oh, that's me. There I am in the paper.' (smiles) It's funny. It's just as though it's a different person."
Ringo: "When we go home, we go in early in the morning when we've finished a job, and the kids don't know you're at home. But if they find out, where I live, they get the drums out and beat it out! (laughs) 'Cuz it's a play street and, you know, there's no traffic or nothing bothering them. Once when the boys came for me - they popped in to see me Mum and me Dad, you know - we had to go out the back 'cuz there were twenty or thirty outside. and they wouldn't believe me mother, you know, knocking and saying 'Can we have their autographs.' So it built up so much. There was about two hundred kids all around the door, peeping through the window and knocking."
(Beatles giggling)
Ringo: (laughs) "In the end, me mother was ill, you know - terrified out of her life - with just all these kids and boys and girls, you know."
George: "They send us alot of Jellybabies and chocolates and things like that, just because somebody wrote in one of the papers about presents and things that we'd had given to us. and John said he'd got some Jellybabies and I ate them. But ever since that we've been inundated. We get about two-ton a night. (smiles) But the main trouble is they tend to throw them at us when were on stage. (laughs) and, uhh, once I got one in my eye which wasn't very nice. (holds finger to eye) In fact I haven't been the same since."
John: "It all sounds complaining, but you know, we're not. We're just putting the point that it affects your home more than it does yourself, you know, because you know what to expect but your parents and family don't know what's happening."
(The Beatles were then asked what they saw in their own future, and how long their fame might last.)
John: "'How long are you gonna last?' Well, you can't say, you know. You can be big-headed and say, 'Yeah, we're gonna last ten years.' But as soon as you've said that you think, 'We're lucky if we last three months,' you know."
Paul: "Well, obviously we can't keep playing the same sort of music until we're about forty - sort of, old men playing 'From Me To You' - nobody is going to want to know at all about that sort of thing. You know, we've thought about it, and probably the thing that John and I will do, uhh, will be write songs - as we have been doing as a sort of sideline now - we'll probably develop that a bit more we hope. Who knows. At forty, we may not know how to write songs anymore."
George: "I hope to have enough money to go into a business of my own by the time we, umm, do 'flop.' (laughs) and we don't know - it may be next week, it may be two or three years. But I think we'll be in the business, either up there or down there, for at least another four years."
Ringo: "I've always fancied having a ladies hairdressing salon."
(Beatles giggling)
Ringo: (undeterred) "You know, a string of them, in fact! Strut 'round in me stripes and tails, you know. 'Like a cup of tea, Madam?'"
Source: Video copy of original film footage
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②｜Press Conference in New York City ｜No.26
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‡1964(昭和39)年08月28日(fri) August 28
Q: "It's been said that the Beatles are a threat to public safety. Could you give me your reaction to that, any one of you?"
John: "Well, we're no worse than bombs, are we."
Q: "Could you repeat the question?"
M.C: "It has been said that the Beatles are a threat to public safety. What do the Beatles feel about it?"
John: "Rubbish."
Paul: "Rubbish."
Q: "Speak up."
Ringo: (yells) "Rubbish!!"
Q: "What differences do you find between the reception you get here in this country and abroad?"
John and Ringo: (together) "There's just more people over here."
Q: "Paul, it's not different in any way?"
Paul: "Well, it's a little bit wilder, because there are more people."
Q: "Who do you like for President?"
Paul: "Ringo - and Johnson's second choice."
(laughter)
Q: "If your fame subsides, will you cut your hair?"
Paul: "Well, we had our hair like this before the fame... what's the opposite of subside? Upsided!? You know, so we won't bother changing it."
Q: "Did you boys come to the Delmonico (hotel) because they weren't asked back to the Plaza?"
Paul: "I don't know."
Q: "As seriously as you can, how do you account for the type of reception you get?"
Paul: "We can't account for it, you know. We..."
Q: "It's been going on for quite a few months now. You must have some ideas about why people like you."
Paul: "No we don't, you know. Really - no idea."
Ringo: "We can't tell. It's impossible.
Paul: "Probably a combination."
John: "Mainly the music. That comes first, and we come after."
Q: "Do you think that's more important than your personalities, and your..."
John: "Well I mean, people heard us playing on records before they saw us. They see you after you've made the record, you know."
Paul: "and anyway, if we made very bad records..."
Q: (laughs)
Paul: "...I'm just saying that 'cuz you probably think they're bad anyway. But I mean, if we made very bad records then we'd definitely be finished."
Q: "The question was asked before about whether you intend to leave the Beatles. It brings up the question of what are you going to do when the day of the Beatles' fame is over. You've written a book which was quite successful. Do you intend to keep on writing, for instance?"
John: "Yeah, I'll do it anyway, you know, whether we're famous or not. I did it before we were famous, so I'll do it after we're famous."
Paul: "He's doing it..."
Q: "What about the rest of you?"
Paul: "Well, John and I, if he's not writing too much, will probably carry on songwriting. Because it's... You know, we don't look upon it as a business. It's a hobby more than anything, so we'll probably carry on."
Q: "What about films? You've had quite a success in this first one."
Paul: "Well you know, if we get a chance to do more films, and if people still want to see us in films, then we'll probably do it, but we've got no plans."
Q: "What do The Beatles think of the topless bathing suits?"
Paul: "We've been wearing 'em for years!"
(laughter)
Q: "Does George feel that he's not as popular as the others?"
John: "He goes a bum in Sweden."
George: "Not really. and, you know, it didn't really bother me. As long as the group's popular."
Paul: "He is popular, anyway."
Q: "Some of your more lively fans outside say that they're going to switch to the Rolling Stones, because they say that the Beatles didn't wave from the window. I would like your comment."
John: "Well, if they're gonna leave us just for that, they may as well go anyway, you know."
(laughter and applause)
Paul: "No but anyway, we were told as soon as we got here last night, by the police, don't look out of the windows and don't wave. and if we do that, you know, then we get the police chief coming up and saying, (American accent) 'Well, we're finished, boys!' and he goes away and he won't look after us, you know. So we can't do anything."
Q: "Does your fame go beyond the Iron Curtain?"
Paul: "Don't know."
John: "You never hear about it over there."
(laughter)
Q: "Lots of people in the back have been asking this question - Do you like America?"
Beatles: "Yes!"
John: "We wouldn't be here if we didn't like it."
Ringo: "Yes, we do."
Q: "What will the Beatles do after this calms down?"
John: (to the others) "They keep saying that every two minutes."
Ringo: "I don't know, you know. We just keep going and see what happens. I haven't planned anything."
Q: "Ringo, your taste in music has been said to be from R&R to C&W, does it go any farther than that?"
Ringo: "No."
(laughter)
Paul: (to Ringo) "Folk?"
Ringo: (to Paul) "Well, what's C&W?"
Paul: (to Ringo) "Not folk."
Ringo: "Well, I look at it..."
Q: "In their film, they have some coat hangers marked 'Hotel Corporation of America.' Where did they get them from?"
John: "I didn't even see them."
Ringo: "Props. We don't get them."
John: (laughs) "I never even noticed."
Q: "The airport police were quite concerned about some oversized roughnecks who tried to infiltrate the crowd."
Paul: "That was us!"
(laughter)
Q: "They took a rifle away from one of the boys, it turned out later to be a dud, anyway. But I wonder what kind of insurance you fellas carry, and how difficult is it for you to get insurance when you go into these towns where you're obviously going to be mobbed?"
Paul: (jokingly) "Which company do you represent?"
Ringo: "We are insured."
John: "Somebody insured us. I don't... we don't know anything about it. We just signed the paper, you know."
Ringo: "But who wants a rich mother?"
(laughter)
Q: "What do the Beatles plan to do on their leisure time while they're in New York?"
John: "What leisure time?"
Q: "What's your itinerary for Sunday?"
Ringo: "Sunday?"
John: "Don't know."
Ringo: "Where are we playing?"
Q: "I mean, what time are you gonna leave for Atlantic City?"
M.C: "Very secret."
John: "Is it?"
Q: "Have you changed your style any since you began, to now? Still playing the same way, the same kind of..."
John: "Basically we're playing the same, you know. It changes a bit. Your recording style changes, you know, 'cuz..."
Q: "What message are you trying to get across, if any?"
John: "We're not trying to get any message across."
Q: "To entertain?"
Ringo: "Yeah, we just play 'cuz we like it."
Paul: "We're just singing songs, you know. We're not doing anything more. Not preaching or anything."
Q: "George, what are you going to do after this dies down?"
John: (amazed, to the others) "They keep saying this every two minutes!"
George: "Well, as Ringo just said, we've been asked that one before."
Ringo: (jokingly) "As John just said. Don't get ME into trouble."
Q: "Would the Beatles have been as successful if Ringo had not replaced Pete Best?"
John: "Probably not - We might have made good, you know. We might have sold. I don't know. You cant tell, you know."
Q: "Was any part of The Beatles' movie improvised by yourselves?"
John: "A bit of it was. But even when we improvised something, you have to do take eleven - so by the time you'd finished it wasn't improvised at all, you know."
Q: "What do you think of (presidential hopeful) Barry Goldwater?"
Paul: "I don't know alot about him, but I just heard him say once that extremism is a virtue, and I just thought that was a bit mad, you know."
Q: "George, do you like the Delmonico?"
George: "Who?"
(laughter)
Q: "A psychiatrist at one of your concerts in Seattle said the effect on the children - 14,000 kids in there - he called it unhealthy, and he said you had a neurotic effect. How do you feel about this?"
John: "It was probably him that was unhealthy, watching it."
(laughter)
Q: "John, how would you describe yourself in one word?"
John: "I don't know."
Paul: "'John.'"
John: (giggling) "'John' yeah. Thank you."
(laughter)
Q: George, you had an incident the other night with a photographer on the west coast. Do you find that the frenzy that surrounds your life makes your tempers wear thin?"
George: "No. I was in very high spirits that evening, and I just thought I'd baptize him."
(laughter)
M.C: "and one from the child right here."
Q: "Ringo, did you like, uhh.... I was looking in a magazine - Did you like the snowball fight?"
Ringo: "Well it was set up, really. It's good fun, though."
John: "Don't destroy his illusions, he loves 'em!"
Q: "Have you been to Disneyland?"
John: "No. I don't even know where it is."
M.C: "This is the last question."
Q: "Are you people going to appear at the World's Fair? and how long are you staying in New York?"
Ringo: "We're not going to the World's Fair, and we're here till Sunday."
Q: "Are you coming back?"
John: "Oh yeah. We come back."
M.C: "They return to New York I think, on September 20th, for a Gala Charity Show at the Paramount Theatre. Very expensive... and it's booked up."
Q: "How long are you staying in the United States?"
John: "All together, I think it's thirty days."
Paul and John: (singing) "'...for thirty days.'"
Source: Video and audio recordings of the press conference
