アヴェ・マリア！
愛する兄弟姉妹の皆様、
フェレー司教様がイル・フォッリョ紙（Il Foglio）になさったインタビューをご紹介いたします。イタリア語原文は、Messa in Latino.it というブログに掲載されています。
2009年3月20日、
フェレー司教は話す
イタリアを代表する二名のカトリック知識人であるアレッサンドロ・ニョッキとマリオ・パルマロ（彼らはいろいろな著作の中でもとりわけすばらしい『ミサは終わっていない La Messa non è finita』を書いた著者である）が今日、イル・フォッリョ紙に発表した、聖ピオ十世会の総長であるベルナール・フェレー司教様とのインタビューのテキストを提供することうれしく思います。
フェレー司教様、聖ピオ十世会に関する教皇様の司教たちへの書簡が発表された後、公式の報道発表であなたは第二バチカン公会議と公会議後の教えを聖伝の光において考察したいと述べました。ジャーナリストの業界用語で言いますと、これは記事ネタなんでしょうか？
フェレー司教：神学者の業界用語で言いますと、これが実体です（つまり物事が何かをうまく言い当てています）。つまり、フィルターは、つまり公会議後の教えにその本当の意味を与える光は常に啓示の遺産であるという意味です。明確にしてくれる道具は、教皇の永遠の常なる教えであります。何故なら天主様はこの教皇に信仰の保護と伝達の使命を委託したのですから。哲学において、行為はその対象にあらかじめ秩序付けられているといわれます。この場合、行為とは教導権であり、対象とは信仰の遺産です、つまり、レランの聖ヴィンチェンチオが「常にどこででも全てによって信じいられてきたこと」として定義付けたところの聖伝です。教皇様は聖伝の最高の守護者です。
まさにそのことを教皇は、教会が第二バチカン公会議とともに生まれてきたのではなく二千年前に生まれたと説明しながら、聖伝は1962年でストップすることができないと言われました。どう思いますか？
フェレー司教：私たちは聖伝を1962年でストップさせようとは望みません。私たちが教会の全ての教えに、その全ての発展とともに、その誕生から1960年代まで従うことができたのは、私たちはよく言われるように「固定」しているわけではないということを意味しています。
私たちが第二バチカン公会議を問題としているのは本当です。しかしながら第二バチカン公会議自身が「司牧公会議」として自分を定義したのであって「ドグマを決める公会議」として規定したのではなかったのです。このことは聖伝の継続においていかなる革新も生まれてこなかったということ、聖伝の継続においていかなる革新も挿入することが明白にできないということによっています。
聖伝とは、教会の教えによれば、天主からの啓示の源泉であり、人間の手のなかのおもちゃではない（それが聖伝主義者たちの手であれ）ということを思い出しましょう。
この聖伝の領域の発展は同一性を保たなければなりません。暗示的なことから明示的な表現へと歩むことでもありうるのです。しかし数世紀もの間教えられてきたことの反対ではありえません。教会の存在理由は、教皇によって指導されつつ、私たちの主イエズス・キリストによって委ねられた信仰の遺産の保全であります。
（後略；詳しくは下の英訳をご参考になさってください。）
-------------
FRIDAY 20 MARCH 2009
Bishop Fellay speaks
We are pleased to offer the text of the interview with Monsignor Bernard Fellay, superior of the Fraternity Saint Pius X, that two Catholic intellectuals, Alessandro Gnocchi and Mario Palmaro (authors among others the excellent "The Mass is not over") published today on "Il Foglio"
Monsignor Fellay, after the publication of the Pope's letter to bishops on the issue of the Saint Pius X Fraternity, in an official communication, you said you want to consider the Vatican II and post-conciliar teaching in the light of tradition. As they say in journalistic jargon, is it news?
"As they say in theological jargon, it is the substance. It means that the filter, the light that will give its true meaning to the post-conciliar teaching will always be the deposit of the Revelation. The instrument to make clarity is the perennial and constant teaching of the Pope to whom God has entrusted the mission to safeguard and transmit the faith. In philosophy it is said that an act is preordained to its object. In this case, the act is the magisterium, the object is the deposit of faith, that is the Tradition that St. Vincent of Lerins defined as 'what has been believed always, everywhere and by all '. The Pope is the supreme guardian of the Tradition. "
Just the Pope, explaining that the Church was not born with the Second Vatican Council but two millenia before, also said that the Tradition cannot stop at 1962. What do you think?
"We do not want to stop the Tradition at 1962. When we were able to follow all the teachings of the Church from its birth to the sixties, with all its developments, it means that we are not, as they usually say, the 'fixed'. It is true that we have posed the problems on the Second Vatican Council, which has however defined itself as 'pastoral council' and not 'dogmatic'. This depends from the evident impossibility to insert in the continuity of Tradition any innovations that are not generated. Let us remember that the Tradition, according to the teaching of the Church, is a source of divine Revelation, is not a toy in the hands of men, let alone the traditionalists. The developments in this area require homogeneity, can be a step from the implicit to the explicit, but cannot be in opposition to what is taught over the course of centuries. The raison d'etre of the Church, guided by the Pope, is the preservation of the deposit of the faith that was consigned by Our Lord."
You put an ontological link between the Pope and the Tradition. Certainly, the lifting of the excommunication which had struck in 1988, calls to look in that direction. But not all do it willingly.
"Certainly they do not do it willingly, those who no longer wanted to listen to the call of the Church militant, the detachment from the world, the necessity to follow the commandments to find the eternal salvation. All of these are deeply dissatisfied by such a step."
One of the salient passages of the letter of the Pope is the one that shows awareness of the crisis of faith in which the Catholic world finds itself. What, in your view, the most worrying effect of this situation?
"If, fundamentally, the crisis of the Church is a crisis of faith, for the immediate consequence it is also a crisis of the ministers, who must transmit this faith, the priests. If there the priesthood is a crisis, the graces that are to be transmitted to men through his ministry, especially through the sacrifice of the mass, do not pass more or pass much more difficultly. So we need a reform of the priesthood, a return to the sense of the vocation and the holiness in all its forms. The priest is another Christ, nothing less."
In this regard, although not lacking of severity in some passages, the Pope has shown towards the priests of the Saint Pius X Fraternity a full attention of delicateness. What do you feel?
"I think that if the Pope has seen in some of our priests excesses or rigidity, he also sees something more. He sees the sincerity, the seriousness. He sees the love for the Church and the faith, love for the souls. A love willing to endure much suffering to fulfill the mission of saving souls."
In his letter, the Pope, referring to episcopal ordinations celebrated by Archbishop Lefebvre says "An episcopal ordination without papal mandate signifies the danger of a schism." He does not say "is a schism." So you you are not but were separated from Rome?
"We have always said. Episcopal ordinations actually occurred without the explicit agreement of Pope John Paul II. But in those historical circumstances, it was clear that this was not an act of rebellion to the Holy See, nor the attempt to establish a parallel hierarchy that, in fact, could give rise to a schism. Archbishop Lefebvre, when he decided to proceed with the consecrations, took all necessary precautions to avoid any danger of schism. Today, twenty years later, we are very happy that Rome recognizes it."
Apart from a few intellectuals, many Catholics have seen this letter from the Pope as an opportunity to call to order an episcopate little inclined to obedience. In some points. Benedict XVI shows that he felt betrayed. L'Osservatore Romano puts its finger in the wound by accusing a part of the Roman Curia for the leak of information about the Williamson case, created especially for attacking Benedict XVI. What does this all mean?
"When we talk about the problems of the Second Vatican Council, we also refer to problems of such kind, which were highlighted today by the Pope. We do not have to say, but the history, that during the Council two parties faced each other, one traditional, mostly represented by the Roman Curia, and another progressive. It was this latter to win and put an immediate target at the papacy. Today it is proving to be tired, unable to speak to new generations who want something healthier and more holy. But, it has not ceased to operate and is fighting with more diverse weapons. Our story is just the latest in the order of time."
So the Pope is the real target?
'It is obvious. The progressive world, which is allied with the modern liberal mind, barely sees the Church raise her voice loud and clear to restore the truth, reacts by attacking the Pope."
With his letter, the Pope mentions the confrontation with the Saint Pius X Fraternity on its natural level, that of doctrine. This means that the Holy Father will judge interlocutors worthy of attention. With what spirit and with what expectations you prepare for this debate?
"It is what we asked for some time now. We have always said that the most serious problem is the conciliar texts are in certain ambiguities that offer the possibility of multiple interpretations. From the text of a Council that waits for clarity and not the ambiguity which requires subsequent considerations to determine the correct interpretation. Otherwise, you always ask what is more important: the text or the interpretation of the magisterium? Furthermore, it must be said that there is also a philosophical problem. The conciliar documents were not written in the language of 'perennial philosophy', but according to that of modern philosophy. From this descend other interpretive questions. Therefore we believe that we must work hard and we must take the difficulties into account. But we are preparing seriously. When working for the good of the Church, the difficulties do not scare us."
Bishop Fellay, who are these traditionalists?
"They are Catholics who want to live as Catholics of all ages, who seek the salvation by imitating the saints and by following what the Church has always taught. In short, they are normal Catholics very attentive not to be surprised by the siren call that invites them to marry in a world hostile to Our Lord."
愛する兄弟姉妹の皆様、
フェレー司教様がイル・フォッリョ紙（Il Foglio）になさったインタビューをご紹介いたします。イタリア語原文は、Messa in Latino.it というブログに掲載されています。
2009年3月20日、
フェレー司教は話す
イタリアを代表する二名のカトリック知識人であるアレッサンドロ・ニョッキとマリオ・パルマロ（彼らはいろいろな著作の中でもとりわけすばらしい『ミサは終わっていない La Messa non è finita』を書いた著者である）が今日、イル・フォッリョ紙に発表した、聖ピオ十世会の総長であるベルナール・フェレー司教様とのインタビューのテキストを提供することうれしく思います。
フェレー司教様、聖ピオ十世会に関する教皇様の司教たちへの書簡が発表された後、公式の報道発表であなたは第二バチカン公会議と公会議後の教えを聖伝の光において考察したいと述べました。ジャーナリストの業界用語で言いますと、これは記事ネタなんでしょうか？
フェレー司教：神学者の業界用語で言いますと、これが実体です（つまり物事が何かをうまく言い当てています）。つまり、フィルターは、つまり公会議後の教えにその本当の意味を与える光は常に啓示の遺産であるという意味です。明確にしてくれる道具は、教皇の永遠の常なる教えであります。何故なら天主様はこの教皇に信仰の保護と伝達の使命を委託したのですから。哲学において、行為はその対象にあらかじめ秩序付けられているといわれます。この場合、行為とは教導権であり、対象とは信仰の遺産です、つまり、レランの聖ヴィンチェンチオが「常にどこででも全てによって信じいられてきたこと」として定義付けたところの聖伝です。教皇様は聖伝の最高の守護者です。
まさにそのことを教皇は、教会が第二バチカン公会議とともに生まれてきたのではなく二千年前に生まれたと説明しながら、聖伝は1962年でストップすることができないと言われました。どう思いますか？
フェレー司教：私たちは聖伝を1962年でストップさせようとは望みません。私たちが教会の全ての教えに、その全ての発展とともに、その誕生から1960年代まで従うことができたのは、私たちはよく言われるように「固定」しているわけではないということを意味しています。
私たちが第二バチカン公会議を問題としているのは本当です。しかしながら第二バチカン公会議自身が「司牧公会議」として自分を定義したのであって「ドグマを決める公会議」として規定したのではなかったのです。このことは聖伝の継続においていかなる革新も生まれてこなかったということ、聖伝の継続においていかなる革新も挿入することが明白にできないということによっています。
聖伝とは、教会の教えによれば、天主からの啓示の源泉であり、人間の手のなかのおもちゃではない（それが聖伝主義者たちの手であれ）ということを思い出しましょう。
この聖伝の領域の発展は同一性を保たなければなりません。暗示的なことから明示的な表現へと歩むことでもありうるのです。しかし数世紀もの間教えられてきたことの反対ではありえません。教会の存在理由は、教皇によって指導されつつ、私たちの主イエズス・キリストによって委ねられた信仰の遺産の保全であります。
（後略；詳しくは下の英訳をご参考になさってください。）
-------------
FRIDAY 20 MARCH 2009
Bishop Fellay speaks
We are pleased to offer the text of the interview with Monsignor Bernard Fellay, superior of the Fraternity Saint Pius X, that two Catholic intellectuals, Alessandro Gnocchi and Mario Palmaro (authors among others the excellent "The Mass is not over") published today on "Il Foglio"
Monsignor Fellay, after the publication of the Pope's letter to bishops on the issue of the Saint Pius X Fraternity, in an official communication, you said you want to consider the Vatican II and post-conciliar teaching in the light of tradition. As they say in journalistic jargon, is it news?
"As they say in theological jargon, it is the substance. It means that the filter, the light that will give its true meaning to the post-conciliar teaching will always be the deposit of the Revelation. The instrument to make clarity is the perennial and constant teaching of the Pope to whom God has entrusted the mission to safeguard and transmit the faith. In philosophy it is said that an act is preordained to its object. In this case, the act is the magisterium, the object is the deposit of faith, that is the Tradition that St. Vincent of Lerins defined as 'what has been believed always, everywhere and by all '. The Pope is the supreme guardian of the Tradition. "
Just the Pope, explaining that the Church was not born with the Second Vatican Council but two millenia before, also said that the Tradition cannot stop at 1962. What do you think?
"We do not want to stop the Tradition at 1962. When we were able to follow all the teachings of the Church from its birth to the sixties, with all its developments, it means that we are not, as they usually say, the 'fixed'. It is true that we have posed the problems on the Second Vatican Council, which has however defined itself as 'pastoral council' and not 'dogmatic'. This depends from the evident impossibility to insert in the continuity of Tradition any innovations that are not generated. Let us remember that the Tradition, according to the teaching of the Church, is a source of divine Revelation, is not a toy in the hands of men, let alone the traditionalists. The developments in this area require homogeneity, can be a step from the implicit to the explicit, but cannot be in opposition to what is taught over the course of centuries. The raison d'etre of the Church, guided by the Pope, is the preservation of the deposit of the faith that was consigned by Our Lord."
You put an ontological link between the Pope and the Tradition. Certainly, the lifting of the excommunication which had struck in 1988, calls to look in that direction. But not all do it willingly.
"Certainly they do not do it willingly, those who no longer wanted to listen to the call of the Church militant, the detachment from the world, the necessity to follow the commandments to find the eternal salvation. All of these are deeply dissatisfied by such a step."
One of the salient passages of the letter of the Pope is the one that shows awareness of the crisis of faith in which the Catholic world finds itself. What, in your view, the most worrying effect of this situation?
"If, fundamentally, the crisis of the Church is a crisis of faith, for the immediate consequence it is also a crisis of the ministers, who must transmit this faith, the priests. If there the priesthood is a crisis, the graces that are to be transmitted to men through his ministry, especially through the sacrifice of the mass, do not pass more or pass much more difficultly. So we need a reform of the priesthood, a return to the sense of the vocation and the holiness in all its forms. The priest is another Christ, nothing less."
In this regard, although not lacking of severity in some passages, the Pope has shown towards the priests of the Saint Pius X Fraternity a full attention of delicateness. What do you feel?
"I think that if the Pope has seen in some of our priests excesses or rigidity, he also sees something more. He sees the sincerity, the seriousness. He sees the love for the Church and the faith, love for the souls. A love willing to endure much suffering to fulfill the mission of saving souls."
In his letter, the Pope, referring to episcopal ordinations celebrated by Archbishop Lefebvre says "An episcopal ordination without papal mandate signifies the danger of a schism." He does not say "is a schism." So you you are not but were separated from Rome?
"We have always said. Episcopal ordinations actually occurred without the explicit agreement of Pope John Paul II. But in those historical circumstances, it was clear that this was not an act of rebellion to the Holy See, nor the attempt to establish a parallel hierarchy that, in fact, could give rise to a schism. Archbishop Lefebvre, when he decided to proceed with the consecrations, took all necessary precautions to avoid any danger of schism. Today, twenty years later, we are very happy that Rome recognizes it."
Apart from a few intellectuals, many Catholics have seen this letter from the Pope as an opportunity to call to order an episcopate little inclined to obedience. In some points. Benedict XVI shows that he felt betrayed. L'Osservatore Romano puts its finger in the wound by accusing a part of the Roman Curia for the leak of information about the Williamson case, created especially for attacking Benedict XVI. What does this all mean?
"When we talk about the problems of the Second Vatican Council, we also refer to problems of such kind, which were highlighted today by the Pope. We do not have to say, but the history, that during the Council two parties faced each other, one traditional, mostly represented by the Roman Curia, and another progressive. It was this latter to win and put an immediate target at the papacy. Today it is proving to be tired, unable to speak to new generations who want something healthier and more holy. But, it has not ceased to operate and is fighting with more diverse weapons. Our story is just the latest in the order of time."
So the Pope is the real target?
'It is obvious. The progressive world, which is allied with the modern liberal mind, barely sees the Church raise her voice loud and clear to restore the truth, reacts by attacking the Pope."
With his letter, the Pope mentions the confrontation with the Saint Pius X Fraternity on its natural level, that of doctrine. This means that the Holy Father will judge interlocutors worthy of attention. With what spirit and with what expectations you prepare for this debate?
"It is what we asked for some time now. We have always said that the most serious problem is the conciliar texts are in certain ambiguities that offer the possibility of multiple interpretations. From the text of a Council that waits for clarity and not the ambiguity which requires subsequent considerations to determine the correct interpretation. Otherwise, you always ask what is more important: the text or the interpretation of the magisterium? Furthermore, it must be said that there is also a philosophical problem. The conciliar documents were not written in the language of 'perennial philosophy', but according to that of modern philosophy. From this descend other interpretive questions. Therefore we believe that we must work hard and we must take the difficulties into account. But we are preparing seriously. When working for the good of the Church, the difficulties do not scare us."
Bishop Fellay, who are these traditionalists?
"They are Catholics who want to live as Catholics of all ages, who seek the salvation by imitating the saints and by following what the Church has always taught. In short, they are normal Catholics very attentive not to be surprised by the siren call that invites them to marry in a world hostile to Our Lord."
